In writing a paper about “pulling the plug”, I came across the following argument. The interesting thing about it is that the person making the argument is Peter Singer, the bioethicist perhaps best known for his argument that there can be animals that are persons who should be protected and that there are non-person humans that don’t deserve protection. You can tell how he makes the distinction in the following quotes. I thought these quotes were interesting, however, because I agree with the implications he draws from the belief that all life is of equal value and worth – that is, that all life should be protected and valued regardless of its state of consciousness. His point is that there can be no middle ground.
"Old Commandment: Treat all human life as of equal worth"
“Hardly anyone really believes that all human life is of equal worth. The rhetoric that flows so easily from the pens and mouths of popes, theologians, ethicists, and some doctors is belied every time these same people accept that we need not go all out to save a severely malformed baby; that we may allow an elderly man with advanced Alzheimer’s disease to die from pneumonia, untreated by antibiotics; or that we can withdraw food and water from a patient in a persistent vegetative state. When the law sticks to the letter of this commandment, it leads to what everyone agrees now is an absurdity, like Joey Fiori’s survival for almost two decades in a persistent vegetative state, or the continuation of respirator support for the anencephalic Baby K. The new approach is able to deal with these situations in the obvious way, without struggling to reconcile them with any lofty claims that all human life is of equal worth, irrespective of its potential for gaining or regaining consciousness.”
"New Commandment: Recognize that the worth of human life varies"
“This new commandment allows us frankly to acknowledge…that life without consciousness is of no worth at all.”
“The best argument for the new commandment is the sheer absurdity of the old one. If we were to take seriously the idea that all human life, irrespective of its capacity for consciousness, is equally worthy of our care and support, we would have to root out of medicine not only open quality of life judgments, but also the disguised ones. We would then be left trying to do our best to prolong indefinitely the lives of anencephalics, cortically dead infants, and patients in a persistent vegetative state. Ultimately, if we were really honest with ourselves, we would have to try to prolong the lives of those we now classify as dead because their brains have entirely ceased to function. For if human life is of equal worth, whether it has the capacity for consciousness or not, why focus on the death of the brain, rather than on the death of the body as a whole?”
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My response is going to be very simplified (because we have talked about this). :)
I just don't think I see death the same way that you do.
I am still not sure where I stand on this issue. By initial thoughts have been that I wouldn't want to be on life support for an extended time (like over a year). My thoughts tend to lean towards Philippians 1:21-22 "For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me."
One commentary says, "Death is a great loss to a carnal, worldly man, for he loses all his earthly comforts and all his hopes; but to a true believer it is gain, for it is the end of all his weakness and misery. It delivers him from all the evils of life, and brings him to possess the chief good. The apostle's difficulty was not between living in this world and living in heaven; between these two there is no comparison; but between serving Christ in this world and enjoying him in another. Not between two evil things, but between two good things; living to Christ and being with him. See the power of faith and of Divine grace; it can make us willing to die. In this world we are compassed with sin; but when with Christ, we shall escape sin and temptation, sorrow and death, for ever. But those who have most reason to desire to depart, should be willing to remain in the world as long as God has any work for them to do. And the more unexpected mercies are before they come, the more of God will be seen in them."
The Westminster Catechism says, "Man's cheif end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever." It seems that there would come a point that I would no longer be doing this in the flesh. Furthermore, if to "live in the flesh means fruitful labor," at what point would I no longer be an instrumental to advance the honour and interest of the kingdom of Christ in the world. To keep me on life support for an extended time by machines would be prolonging a death that is GAIN!
I should want to remain as a part of this world so long as God would have work for me. I know God is sovereign over modern medicine, but lying in a hospital bed for years seems to me that the work would be done. How would I determine this? Heck if I know?
Again, these are just thoughts!
You should define for us what you think life is.
If the basis of your argument against is the usefulness of yourself than your decision is made. Think about how well the Lord could use us if we weren't able to interfere! ;)
my mom has said forever that she think it's probable that my grandma isn't alive for herself (she can't talk or walk) but for those who take care of her and for God to work on them. Your life isn't only for your own usefulness.
MAN-I said than.
Hate that.
I wonder what grandma thinks about.
It's okay, I deleted my first comment because I said probably instead of probable
also I've wondered the same thing about grandma. It's really frustrating to not know what's going on in there. You can tell by her expression sometimes that she thinks it's frustrating too. She does her shs shs sh noise and looks so sad when no one understands.
yeah, she used to get really frustrated with my kids in Wa. How annoying would THAT be. Kids not doing what you want and you can't even tell them!! I used to try to keep them away from her to lower her stress level. Poor grandma!!
I can totally see your point Kirstie. I have actually been thinking alot lately about how little I die to self in everyday life even now. This is hard because I am a natural self worshipper and I am seeing more lately that I like to think I have control. I pray that the Lord would continue to interfere and kill me that I wouldn't interfere. (This is in no way a suicidal comment. I have just been spanked alot by God lately about my hypocracy. In my attemps to be 'more godly' I have seen more of a pharisee in me than a woman who is desperate and dependent on God.)
I can also see your mom's point Katy. I worked with severely handicapped kids for a year. I learned more about my dependence on God that year than ever before through the example of those kids dependence on others for general functioning. In some ways I saw their condition as a means in which God was sanctifying me.
I have a grandmother who suffers with severe dementia and I also wonder what goes through her mind. I have asked her numberous times because she is able to speak. But there is never a response to that question. It is almost as if she has lost emotion and recollection of who she is. The woman can still sing hymns though on a good day.
Needless to say you argue a good case so far. Josh has said that he will tear my argument apart. Again, I do not have a set stance on this issue yet, so the challenging thoughts are helpful.
It could be a selfish thought that I would not want to be on life support for 20 years. My days are numbered though and I suppose God can use machines to sustain me for however long he wanted.
Please tell me Josh didn't actually say that. :(
Haha. I didn't mean to make it sound like a bad thing. He is the one that has been studying this topic for his paper. Needless to say he probably can and will tear it apart or atleast give a rebuttal and it will probably teach me something. So bring it Josh.
and I agree that sharing opinions is good. Just in a nice way. :)
yes, i did say that - not in mean way. More in a "watch your feet 'cause i'm about to drop some knowledge" sort of way:)
knowledgeable opinions?! ;)
Kirstie, he's quoting How I Met Your Mother. "watch your feet, I'm about to drop some knowledge" Barney says that.
... you were probably confused because the actual quote is: Watch your step when you get up kids, 'cause I'm about to drop some knowledge.
I got it the first time.
oh ok. It just looked like some things were getting misunderstood. :)
All is good. Joshie is still the best :)
well he runs a close second, but I'm not one to mention my superiority.
well, that is like comparing apples and oranges. He is the best boy and you are the best girl :)
mmhmm, both fuit... and the orange is far superior. So I hear what you're saying- I'm the orange.
Ya'll crack me up! Especially the great reveal of the nick name Joshie.
For some reason I am interested to hear why the orange is far superior? I can make a mean apple pie out of some apples.
:) it's not. I'm trying to see how many ways I can say I'm better than Josh with everything she says.... I'm on a very very competitive kick right now. I do, however, like oranges better. (and word on the street is that they're healthier)
Gotcha! Speaking of streets...for some reason I was singing to Charlie today, "walkin down the street movin my feet"...but that is all I could remember and I could not get it out of my head.
Oh, that's funny! I hope Charlie got the importance of those lyrics. There's an underlying profundity. :)
Walkin' down the street
movin' my feet
everbody's walkin'
on the street
on their feet
Just like me!
Is that right!?! I tried to learn it Josh...I really did.
So please explain the underlying profoundity at a 4 year old level so I can assure Charlie of the importance of the lyrics. As I said, I couldn't get the first two lines out of my head and Charlie's response was, "Miss Kristin, I am kind of getting tired of that song." Haha
that is funny! poor child.
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